Boundary No Boundary
Shared Memories
This page contains contributions sent in or collected during the stages.
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Kevin Trickett MBE,
President, Wakefield Civic Society
@MrTrickett
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(via email)
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I’m a native of Wakefield, so the ‘where the boundary lies’ issue has cropped up a number of times in my life but most recently with the Civic Society. Boundaries might not be physical barriers, but they are markers of difference. And not just tangible markers – post codes, telephone exchanges, which doctor you visit, etc, are all to some extent determined by which side of the boundary you live on – even West Yorkshire Metro Cards that can’t be used in South Yorkshire (and no doubt vice versa).
Of course, I go back to before local government reorganisation of 1974. I grew up in Newton Hill which was then part of Stanley Urban District Council. That meant my parents paid their rates at the council offices in Outwood Park, our dustbins had ‘SUDC’ on the side and they were emptied by the SUDC refuse men. Friends and family who lived only a few hundred yards away were in Wakefield – and they did things differently there.
Walking into Wakefield from Newton Hill, one entered Wakefield’s city limits on the Leeds Road at Newton Bar where there was a Wakefield sign, one of a number created by blacksmith Frank Foley (I think – his son refurbished some of them some years ago – there’s one near where I live now on Aberford Road, near Clarke Hall, although it needs refurbishing again). Passing that sign was a marker for moving from one local council area to another. When we first acquired a telephone, the number was Lofthouse Gate 2858, only later being absorbed into the Wakefield exchange.
I went to Rothwell Grammar School which was outside the Wakefield area – I think the dividing line was around Potovens Lane. I can’t remember for certain whether it came under Leeds at that time (1960s) but it was a marker of difference again.
And what we think of as Wakefield was actually two councils – Wakefield Corporation for the city and Wakefield Rural for the outlying bits, reaching as far as the boundary with Barnsley (I had relatives who lived in Darton – originally part of Wakefield Rural District but now, I think, part of Barnsley).
Having a Wakefield post code was no guarantee. So, for example, parts of Tingley and East and West Ardsley (which still have Wakefield post codes) went to Leeds Council while some Ossett addresses came into the Wakefield area as part of local government reorganisation. Thirteen councils were merged into the Wakefield Metropolitan District Council in 1974 but some of the old councils still have mayors and civic regalia, so the local identity is still, to some extent, evident.
And this local identity is important – when people complain to me about the council (and they do), their complaint is sometimes informed by where they live. People in Castleford and Pontefract think all the investment money is being spent in Wakefield – people in Wakefield suggest it’s spent in Pontefract and Castleford! (Having said that, allegiances to sports teams doesn’t always recognise local boundaries or local identities!)
At the Civic Society, where we were set up in 1964 before the local government reorganisation, we have to have regard to our charitable objects – and our ‘area of benefit’. Our constitution says we cover the Wakefield area but we have to interpret that in light of when it was written. This means we sometimes have to dig out the old maps to see where the old council boundaries used to lie – we don’t do Horbury, Ossett, Castleford, Normanton, etc - but we do cover Stanley, Outwood, Wrenthorpe, and Kirkhamgate. This is because we interpret our area as that which used to be administered by three former councils – Wakefield Corporation, Wakefield Rural District and Stanley Urban District. However, it’s only old-timers like me that remember any of this – ask a new committee member about this and I suspect they’d stare blankly! If we didn’t make this distinction, however, we’d end up covering the whole district – which would have us treading on the toes of the other civic societies in the district – and they wouldn’t like that!
Within the district, and again with my Civic Society hat on, we have a number of Conservation Areas – and this affects how we look at planning applications. For example, the Wood Street Conservation Area includes all the buildings in Wood Street except the former Barclays Bank (now Qubana) which is in the Upper Westgate Conservation Area (the dividing line then runs up the centre of King Street). You have to pay attention to details like that!
Thinking even more locally – the deeds of my house include a map showing where the boundary of the property lies – and the little T signs along the boundaries indicate which fences I’m responsible for.
So, that’s my initial thoughts on this – I hope I’ve interpreted your quest correctly! Boundaries don’t have to be physical to make an impact. They can be signified by a line on a map, demarcated by a ditch or a fence and cut across plots of land irrespective of actual ownership. Sometimes, they can seem quite random but might be historical in their origins. There might be a visible sign to show where they are but often there won’t – there’s not usually a line drawn on a road or a path (although boundaries denoting the ownership of property in town and city centres can sometimes be marked out in studs – look for them when you’re next in Wakefield if you haven’t seen them). But you don’t usually encounter them when walking through the countryside!
And if a sign doesn’t exist, or gets taken down, it has no impact on the existence or otherwise of the actual boundary of course. It might need the farmer and his shotgun to remind you of that!
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Resident - Darton
Stage 1
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15/05/2018
SE 31209 10340
(from noted conversation)
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There are rare blue butterflies on the site of the pit stack and three years ago there was a rare marsh bird, people came from miles to see it.
The pit was Woolley Colliery and when it closed they had to put down all the stray cats because there would be no one to feed them.
At times you can smell the sulphur from the old stack.
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Anne - the dog
Resident - On the top of Rabbit Ings
Stage 3
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19/05/2018
SE 38134 11737
(from noted conversation)
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Over there is Warmcliffe where Kes was filmed,
Over there is Carlton Marshes
That's Mr Kipplin's factory
That's the glass works
We don't think of this as urban at all
We live on the border so when the kids say 'we are going to town' we have to ask 'which one?'
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Stephen Foster - Brierley
Stage 4
(via email)
Blue dot. Site of the Wooden Bridge. This was an interchange siding between the Deanne Valley Railway that came up through Grimethorpe and onto Crouton and the Hull and Barnsley Line , track bed above the blue dot. the Dearne Valley line was a coal line built relatively late to put pressure on the Midland to lower rates and access Goole.
Living on Barnsley Road Brierley then often went to the Wooden Bridge and although the trains were infrequent there were often coal wagons there. It was really a through siding with a couple of sidings. The bridge was indeed wooden. Engines were 90 % of the time WD 280 Tender engines, clanking up and down. The H and BR by this time had stopped going to Hull by this route as the tunnel at South Kirkby I believe was blocked so most of the coal cake from the Upton Pit. The line closed as did so many in the mid 60s. The land around used to flood and in winter it was good for ice sliding.
Yellow dot, the line only seemed very wet and in this stretch there were always lots of newts.
Green dot.
In mam’s child hood this cottage sold “nettle pop” and on spring evening weekend would walk from the middle of Brierley to get some.
It was also the boundary of the country post route for letters and parcels from the Brierley Post office. I was a TAD temporary auxiliary deliverer in 1974 Christmas and that was on my route. My mam was a relief post woman in the mid 60s and often had to go there on her round.
Orange dot. The nurses home to the isolation hospital link to nurses story
http://www.brierleyvillage.co.uk/memories/joycesteele.htm
It is now the Burntwood Hotel. I did deliver post there is December 1974 but it had closed so shoved it through the letter box!
Green dot.
Before my time the Methodist Chapel on a date close to Xmas eve used to sing carols through the village and ended up at the Hall
Hope of interest, enjoying your painting
Stephen
Resident - Brierley
Stage 4
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22/05/2018
SE 40725 11233
(Remembered from conversation sat on a bench)
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That used to be a reet pub,
It's been shut a few weeks now,
Maybe the prices were too high, I don't know,
There used to be wagon and horses tied up outside,
They were from the gypsy site up the road,
Never any trouble,
I met my wife in there,
I worked at Grimethorpe all my life,
The village has changed,
You can't buy a cabbage in the village no more.
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Stephen Foster - Barnsdale Bar
Stage 7
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via email
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Coal Pit Lane is where I accessed the banking on the A1 in 1975. My undergraduate project was looking at the small mammal populations than lived on un disturbed areas that were found on the side of motorways and main routes. I was refused access to the M1 in case I distracted the drivers but it appears drivers on the A1 at that time were made of sterner stuff and I was allowed to work there. I did not have a car but a Honda 50 and for 3 weeks I loaded up 50 Longworth small mammal traps into my rucksack and surveyed the site. The study was very basic but did show there were mainly field voles with some bank voles and wood mice. Later studies carried out on motorways by the Monkswood study Centre did Show that motorway verges are a linear nature reserve and a haven for small mammal populations
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Claire Crossdale - Stapleton
Stage 8
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via email
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Grimshaw's "Stapleton Hall" on today's route. Also loads of actual info about Stapleton Hall ( locals say Stap el tun). Will dig out some links. Herring painted animals there. Lascelles of Harewood owned it at one time. Plus more.
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Stapleton Football Team Probably circa 1930. Second on left is Harry Calvert of Stapleton. Guy in trilby is Ernest Watson of Castle Farm, Stapleton.
Prisoners of War - We think this is taken at Stapleton. Other pics include some of these men along with some named Stapleton farm workers.
Stapleton guy in Blackpool - Think this is a honeymoon photo. Same Harry Calvert as on the football pic
Stapleton harvesting - Harry Calvert on the right. Circa 1930
Was saving this for summat really special. I think your project is special enough.
Stephen Foster - Wentbridge
Stage 8
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via email
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Found a little booklet
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I reckon you cross its track on the next leg.
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Looking through the book again I think the footpath between the two red dots forms part of the track bed of the old Heck Bridge to Wentbridge railway. The book says the track bed now forms a footpath from Kirk Smeaton to Wentbridge and it looks on the right alignment.
After a number of false starts the line linked a number of small limestone quarries from the area to the canal at Heck. The stone was of good quality and used in buildings. The railway was never finished going bust in 1831 due primarily to the price of stone dropping as bricks became cheaper. It seems it did not reach Wentbridge stopping about half a mile away though with enough iron rails to complete the job.
Claire Crossdale - Cridling Stubbs
Stage 9
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via email
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Foget me not card from Lily. Harold Brearley lived at Manor Farm Cridling Stubbs in 1920s(1)
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Chris Walton - Knottingley
Stage 10
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sent as message
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Have you heard about the maggot farm?
There's á maggot farm by the river bank in Knottingley. When I was at the high school there was a story that an elephant from the circus had died so they took the body to the maggot farm. Two pupils from the high school wanted to have a look at it so they broke into the farm, climbed onto the roof, the roof gave way and one of them fell in a drowned in a belly full of maggots.
Visitor to Airedale Library - Brotherton
Stage 11
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notes from a conversation
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I remember them re tarmacking the A1 at Brotherton. There was loads of lorries from North Yorkshire and they re tarmacked the bridge but stopped half way across because that's where the boundary was, half way across the bridge.
Claire Crossdale - Ferrybridge
Stage 11
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sent via email
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Ferrybridge Exchange
Highflyer breaks steel horizon.
Fingers break sal-volatile seal,
ready the remedial fire and wait. Wait
to stand and deliver, impossible hurts to heal.
Black Clump, Gallows Hill, Grieve Field.
She alights to degraded Ferrybridge causey.
Mistress Nightingale for Fryston Hall?
Bone-shaken bone-house sighs and nods
Regret to tell… I’m ready to catch her fall.
Cock crow thrice over Brotherton Marsh
Swinburne Munby Burton
Byronic Tours and Tennyson Whores
Freddy Hankey’s ‘anky panky
Mephistophelian mal sticks acraw
Exotic erotica smuggled with diplomatic immunity
freshly-skinned human bookmark
and artefacts de Sade? No pillar of community…
Eau de Aire aroma vies sal volatile.
The dis-Honorable Member Richard Monckton Milnes,
struts coxcomb to break your heart
they’ve nicknamed him Tricky Dicky you know…
So famed a bird should have better
address than Aphrodisiopolis.
Grieve Field, Gallows Hill, Black Clump bastardised before my very eyes –
Oh there was no going
back.
On my mission to salve and suture
the Battle of Fryston was one too torturous.
I picked coxcombs over Kama Sutra,
stats over masochists
and to tend Leeds Infirmary this ruffled Nightingale
flew
leaving the Fryston fuckwinds
to prey.
April 2018
Claire Crossdale - Stage 12
Fairburn
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sent via email
Resident - New Fryson
Stage 12
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19/06/18
SE45515 27118
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We call that Martha's Finger. We didn't want it. We never go into the park. Why would we. Waste of money. We wanted a community centre. We got one in the end.
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https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/regeneration-projects-win-national-praise-1-2379305
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https://www.hortweek.com/tv-designer-dubs-martha-schwartz-prima-donna/landscape/article/844307
Dog Walker - Lofthouse
Stage 15
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26/06/18
SE432672 25126
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I worked at Lofthouse Pit when the disaster happened. It was March 72. I was underground. Terrible it was. I stayed on until November. I'd had enough. I went to work for Leeds Transport driving busses. Never wanted to go underground again.
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Claire Crossdale - Carr Gate
Stage 16
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sent via message
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At Carr Gate a monkey fell out of a tree onto my Grandad and Great Uncle Ernest whilst they were in the woods near Cardigan Hospital. And near there when the A650 bypass was built it wasn't so much a question of "how now brown cow" but that they turned mucky greyish white thro' dust.
The colour change of the cows thro the dust made the newspapers.
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Resident - Carr Gate
Stage 16
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27/06/18
SE31092 24235
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I used to take the kids to school in East Ardsley and then the built the M62 and we I had to push the push chair with the youngest in over the roadworks to get to the school. Carr Gate was in Leeds back then.
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Security Guard - West Yorkshire Police Training and Development Centre, Carr Gate
Stage 16
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27/06/18
​SE 30755 24054
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Are you a walker? ......I've been asked to escort you off the site......I think someone has published a map with a footpath going through here but there isn't one......There is one just over there and I can walk you to it?
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Claire Crossdale - Carr Gate
Stage 16
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Sent via email
Sooo mid early 1970s my. Grandad and Gt Uncle Ernest went for a walk at Carrgate. Down what we called " the Sanny"; the lane leading to Cardigan Sanatorium. Nowt unusual about that.
However that day as they walked thro' the woods ( adjacent to Cardigan Hospital and what is now Police Headquarters) a monkey dropped out of a tree almost on top of Grandad. Uncle Ernest ( he'd be over 70) shot behind Grandad so as to give himself a bit of protection!
The owner of the monkey moved even faster to prevent it causing further problems! Found out later that some of his several monkeys had "form" for biting, chucking faeces and generally being aggressive!
Grandad, Gt Uncle Ernest and the owner are now all dead so in order to give some credence to this tale I had to be able to show that yes there were monkeys living at Carr Gate. Oh boy, the stories flew thick and fast from both my family and close friends of high integrity and from respondents on various social media.
I remember discos being held in a barn at Carr Gate ( will be on the A650 side of the police buildings) on 1975. I recall a monkey in attendance!
Also apparently one used to be taken to the Mappins ( Malt Shovel) at Carr Gate on Sunday lunchtimes where it was allowed to drink froth and maybe even the beer from a glass.
Sometimes a monkey would be "dressed up". That's the Carr Gate boundary aspect.
At Lingwell Gate one was taken to the pub where it actually bit a customer. The customer responded by clouting it which provoked a vociferous monkey howl.
So that's another part of the boundary.
Used to be a shop at East Ardsley called "Molly Mills"- monkey used to help itself to confectionery off the counter!
Down the Falls at East Ardsley several monkeys were caged ( as well as at Carr Gate). I understand that they sometimes escaped. Tale about one running up and down the street with a pram. Several people mentioned this independently.
The owner ran discos at Morley Town Hall with a partner. Not sure if monkeys went to Morley Town Hall and in any case beyond your boundary remit. The photo is of the owner and looks to be " professional". I rather suspect it might have been torn in half. If you look closely there might be another person and another monkey been there. We think it rather looks as if the owner is attached to the monkey by some kind of lead.
Resident - Ossett or Chickley
Stage 17
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29/06/18
SE27008 21645
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I never knew it (the boundary) went through there. I live in Kirklees.
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Resident - Thornhill
Stage 19
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04/07/18
SE24928 17537
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I've walked these fields all my life, I worked at Thornhill Colliery, Caphouse, and Monkton. I walk 6 miles every day through these fields. They've not changed.
Helen Thomas - Yorkshire Sculpture Park
Stage 20
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06/07/18
SE28993 12434
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Well, you did it.